Israel's Wall
Here's a page about the security fence that Israel is building. I don't have a tv, so this is the first time I've seen pictures of the wall itself. They also have an interesting yellow and brown map that shows the difference between the "green line" and where the wall is being built.
I don't follow Middle-East politics very closely, but from what I've heard, this wall seems morally disgusting. Small detail: running a wall across someone's land without compensating them for the loss of half of their property. Big detail: isolating an entire population of relatively poor people, making it even more difficult for them to conduct daily economic life.
How about if we built a 24-foot-high wall around the bad neighborhoods in all US cities? That way we could protect ourselves from the criminals who use those places a base from which to launch attacks on our suburbs. Or maybe we could just wall off large parts of northern Mexico, instead.
It's hard to see how what Israel is doing is any different, morally, from the ghettoization of Jews in previous centuries.
Posted on July 19, 2004 01:38 PM
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One difference: the Jews in the ghettos were not sending suicide bombers to the surrounding areas.
That's not to say that I agree with the exact placement of the wall
Posted by: Ken Hirsch at July 19, 2004 03:39 PMWhy would you say its difficult for them to conduct daily economic life? Their stated goal is to drive the Jewish people into the sea--that would include everything that the Jewish people have built and shared with the "Palestinians" --like markets. You're badly mistaken. The Palestinians don't want to just live their lives on the land, they wan't to take over Israel and add it to the Arab bloc. This wall is the only thing that can put an end to the occupation and keep the peace by keeping out suicide bombers.
Posted by: Ehrin at August 9, 2004 04:11 PMWhen bin ghoryon was prime minister of Israel in the 50s he gave the Palestinian much more then ever any one can dream of, but they didn’t except, after that Golda Maier gave them little lessor but they also didn’t except, then they asked to get the first option by Bin Ghoryon (I am not sure of the spelling of the name) but of course as you know the new prime minister didn’t agree, in year 2000 prime minister Barrack gave them 95% of the of Jerusalem but yasser Arafat didn’t agree and Barrack gone so was Clinton and the democrat in the USA.
I 100% support Mr Sharon, (and I am from Lebanon not Israeli)these people don’t think as human, they think of Quran, (so called there holly book) and in it, it says the Christian and Jews are the sons and daughters of the monkeys and the pigs, so honestly they don’t want the land they want to kill Jews and Christian, because there evil book had told them to kill us, so please ladies and gentleman, put you tolerance aside and your love and compassion, because these people will AS USUAL use your tolerance to enforce there NON tolerance, they even believe that the whole world should by Muslim before judgment day, and for that, there book has 32,322.00 refrance for killing non Muslim. About time the truth is out there about them.
Long Live Sharon
Those who do not agree with the Israel's barrier are those who do not live in Israel. Can't you see that this wall is to protect love ones in Israel?
Posted by: Al Martinez at August 16, 2004 03:36 PMArabs have the entire middle east. Israel is just one small nation of jews. The land was British controlled during WWII- and they thought that since the nazi's almost extinguished the Jewish people with Hitlers "Final Solution", it would be a humane thing to give them back the land that they rightfully were given (by god, btw).
So now they have (some) of it. And here comes another group- suicide arab bombers (and you say building a wall is morally disgusting?)- trying out their own Final Solution to destroy the jews. If you were a nation of slaughtered people, and you were being bombed by an enemy determined to extinguish you, I think you too would build a huge wall to protect your people.
Israel has tried peace, but all these palistine supporters want is the destruction of their enemy throughout history- 'the Jew'.
Let them build their wall. I think it's a wise and cautious way of stopping a majority of bombers that just come walking in and blowing themselves up.
Doesn't it seem peculiar that Jews (gods chosen people) have been persecuted their entire lives. Look here for a timeline: http://www.hearnow.org/caljp.html
Catholics, Nazi's, Spanish, French, Russians, and before that- Egyptians, Romans...
Now you tell me, with all these centuries of persecution- wouldn't you too build a wall for your protection? After being starved, gased, dismembered, shot, and now bombed? How dare you say the wall is inhumane.
Posted by: Jeff at August 17, 2004 02:05 PMSimply put, the wall saves the lives of innocent Jews. No one in their right mind can tell me that any nation doesn't have the right to protect it's citizens. By the way (to the original writer in this discussion) as a resident of south Texas I firmly believe that a security wall, fence, hell firing line along the Texas border is just fine because the illegals here in Texas are overwhelming. It's not that I object to immigration, I object to illegal immigration no matter what the circumstances. We as a nation will not just tell someone to get lost but I demand respect for the laws that govern our country. The wall in Israel is not only just, but it is necessary to protect the lives of the citizens. Palestine has shown repeatedly that they do not want peace, they want dead Jews!!! And that's the plain truth. Anyone that "demands" that the wall come down is obviously upset because not enough Jews are being killed. Anti-semitism is as old as time itself, it shows up in all forms - God is always on trial by the human race. Today's anti-semitism is thinly veiled by pro-palestine people who don't know the whole story that brought the situation to it's current crisis. I suggest reading how Israel came into existence and how palestine was a fabrication of the Roman Government after "scattering the Jews to the corners of the earth" and the fabrication was to remove the memory of Judea from Rome. Keep researching and you'll see, the Jews are being attacked because they are Jews, the palestinians are just another in a long line of people that wish to kill Jews because they disagree with their faith. And I might mention to my fellow Christians, (Evangelical, Catholic, Non-denomination, etc...) that once the Muslims rid the world of Judeaism, WE'RE NEXT!!!!
Posted by: Preston Lange at August 25, 2004 04:40 PMPeople,
The Palestinian people have been living under severe oppression for half a century. Many Zionist Israelis believe they are the Chosen people of God and this world was created for their exploitation. They think the Palestinians are less than human and have allowed the Israeli government to commit the most horrific war crimes. Oddly, the Israeli people have been shown to be moving to the right, politically speaking. That means the war crimes and oppression against the Palestinian people will persist, the global solidarity against the Israeli human rights violations will amass to become stronger and stronger until the truth of Palestine reaches the American people. Once this happens, the American government will have to cease its blockade of peace in Jerusalem through its veto power at the UN Security Council, and then an unknown fate will befall Israel. I hope everyone prays for righteousness.
Peace
no matter how you look at it. This so called 'Temporary' Wall is an abomination. To think that we can ignore those things in the past that are being reflected now is absolutely wrong. It is ignorance to think that this 'thing' is not a monstronsity against humanity. All the things being said 'for' this garbage are just excuses. Just as it was in the Polish Ghetto put upon by Nazi jerks..just as the Berlin Wall was...to ignore what has been the past is pure ignorance. Wake up. Do Not Forget.
Posted by: Deneen at March 1, 2005 09:00 PMFirst of all, read the Quaran before you quote it. In case you don't know (obviously from some of the postings above) Muslims and Jews believe in the same god and they both follow the same teachings of tolerance and compassion. Those Muslims who turn into suicide-bombers are a minority, no different than the minority of Christians who participate in the Ku Klux Klan or the minority of Catholic priests who molested their parishioners. You cannot hold the actions of a few against the people as a whole. (Nearly all Muslims believe in peace and DO NOT condone the actions of such people as suicide-bombers)
Second of all, there was invading of territories by BOTH Israel and Palistine at first, but only the government of Israel has continued the ivasions, occupations, and mass-murdering of civilians. (Not to mention that Israel tried invading Lebanon and a few other countries as well) If you look at the numbers of deaths on both sides since Israel was established, more have died in Palestine. And the reason why Palestine was never happy with any of the offers given to it by Israel (or anyone else for that matter) was because in each case only a fraction of the land that was taken from them was being offered back (And I can say taken because if you bother to look at the territory lines between Israel and Palestine as they were given in the begginging, Palestine has NEVER had all the land alloted to them)
Thirdly, every religion has faced persecution thoughout history. (The Romans persecuted Christians by the way) And after the Romans did it to them, they turned around and did it to non-Christians in the Crusades and then after that the Catholics annihilated the natives of Mexico during the Inquisition. More people were murdered thoughout history in the name of Christianity and Catholicism than Jews. The only reason why it seems that the Jewish people have been singled out so much is because they are the most recent (Hitler's "Final Solution") in a long line of bigotry and anti-semitism. Point being, EVERYONE from EVERY RELIGION has been persecuted at one time or another. On that note, using the events of the second world war to justify all the deaths that are being caused now by the government of Israel is outrageous! If you really have been singled out so much worse than anyone else then you should know better than any of the rest of us how horrible and unacceptable it is to treat people with such disdain and intolerance.
What it all comes down to is this, when Israel was first established lines were drawn bordering Palestine and Israel and the wall that was built clearly divides Palestine into two seperate areas within it's own country. These walls are no where near the Palestine-Israel border! In fact, I would go so far as to say that it is another example of Israel taking land that NEVER LEGALLY BELONGED TO THEM from the people of Palestine. If Israel feels they need a wall for protection they could build one that follows their borders that doesn't show complete disregard and disrespect for the rights and self-determination of another country. (Not to mention that the current wall is in violation of over a dozen international laws).
Also, who cares how many Arab nations there are?! Arab people are the majority in the Middle-East as well as Northern Africa; there are more Arabs than Jews. (At least in that area, I can't speak for the rest of the world's population) Don't forget that out of all the Arab nations few are the size of countries like Spain and France, so why not complain that they have too much land?? Not to mention the U.S. which is English and takes up more space than almost all of Europe.
Seriously people, you both have historical roots in the area where Israel and Palestine are now and as such both Muslims and Jews have cultural and religious ties to that land. When will you stop looking at the situation in terms of what is "yours" (and only yours if you believe that god does exist and that he did indeed determine that area to belong only to one group of people...which is highly unlikely because every holy book states that god loves all of his children equally) and start learning to look in terms of "ours". There is no reason why small children can learn to share and get along with others, yet after over 50 years, two entire cultures cannot do the same. Honestly people, the Ten Commandments even state "thou shalt not kill"...so do you really think that god condones this behavior?! I would be willing to bet that god is extremely angry and dissapointed with all of you.
Posted by: Adrienne at August 13, 2005 09:51 PMprobably a good time for the palastinians to move to jorden or perhaps canada eh
Posted by: at May 18, 2006 09:35 PM"At least 150,000 Jews served Hitler"
Thats a subheading taken from the haartz article which follows.
"... a picture of Goldberg in uniform appeared in a Nazi recruitment advertisement in 1939 depicting 'The Ideal German Soldier.'"
Thats another quote from it.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=707689
Jeff, and a few of the other posters from above will probably find that article quite interesting.
(See also http://www.factsofisrael.com/blog/archives/000346.html)
Incidently Jeff, you say "The land (Palestine) was British controlled during WWII- and they thought that since the nazi's almost extinguished the Jewish people with Hitlers 'Final Solution', it would be a humane thing to give them back the land that they rightfully were given (by god, btw)."
so you'll probably enjoy this sundayherald article too ...
"JEWISH terrorists planned to assassinate Cabinet ministers in Clement Attlee’s government, together with other VIPs in 1940s London, the British security service feared."
"The threat of extremists sending cells to the UK capital was also causing concern, according to the confidential records which were released yesterday."
"The armed struggle against the British Mandate of Palestine had seen the murder in Cairo in late 1944 of Britain’s minister resident in the Middle East, Lord Moyne, by members of the extremist Stern Gang."
http://www.sundayherald.com/54453
One more interesting haartz article for Jeff:-
"A Yad Vashem spokeswoman said there is no proof the Nazis made soap from human bodies during the Holocaust."
"In 1990 samples from several soaps claimed to have been made from Jews were sent for DNA testing at Tel Aviv University. Likewise, those tests determined the soaps did not contain human fats."
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=538996
The Effectiveness of Targeted liquidation
Compelling evidence exists that targeted killing has reduced the terrorist threat against Israel. Leftists repeatedly point out that in May 2002, after eighteen months of targeted liquidations carried out at an unprecedented scale, the number of Israeli victims of Palestinian terror had reached an all-time high of nearly 500. The leftist ignore the fact that the number of Israeli deaths would have been even greater if not for the targeted liquidation. Hundreds of muslim killers were rubbed out before they could make more hits.
It is not difficult to understand why targeted liquidation has not totally
stopped terrorism. Political entities promoting terror against Israel such as Hamas, Islamic Jihad and the Palestinian Authority are very decentralized. They are made up of many cells, the destruction of some having little impact on others. What is required is a ten-fold increase in targeted liquidation. Muslim imperialism has adopted mass murder as a weapon of its war. To stop them, thousands upon thousands of muslims must be killed. There is no other way. The number of young men (and women) who are willing and eager to support suicide bombers appears to be virtually limitless because they assume that in most cases the worst that will happen to them will be a trial and a short jail sentence. Outfitting martyr wannabes with primitive bombs capable of wreaking murderous assaults appears to be relatively easy—at least within the capability of many Palestinians and other muslims who the Israelis have not yet killed.
The dramatic escalation of terrorist attacks and Israeli casualties in the first half of 2002, after more than a year of targeted liquidations is to be expected. The muslims think that westerners are soft and that any hardness will soon dissipate under strong dissension sponsored by leftist traitors. The muslims will surge their retaliatory murder to support their leftist traitor allies and convince western governments to give up. They can then make the case that targeted liquidation actually increases the number of Israelis or others killed, by provoking retaliation, than it saves lives by eliminating key terrorists.
Four examples of targeted liquidation that produced a murderous response are especially compelling. First, as mentioned above, the Israeli killing of "the engineer" Yehiya Ayash in January 1996 provoked four retaliatory suicide bombings of buses, killing more than 50 Israelis. Second, the first-ever killing of an Israeli cabinet minister occurred in October 2001, when members of the PFLP killed Rehavam Ze'evi. The PFLP stated it killed Ze'evi in retaliation for the Israeli killing of its leader, Mustafa Zibri, two months earlier. Third, the January 2002 targeted liquidation of Tanzim leader, Raed al-Karmi ended a cease-fire declared by Yasir Arafat the previous month. During that tenuous ceasefire, the violence of the intifada had been reduced to its lowest point since its inception. That lull is only an example of muslim terrorist political shaping. Following the slaying of Karmi, however, the Palestinians unleashed an unprecedented wave of suicide bombers, killing large numbers of Israelis. Both Fatah leader Marwan Barghouti and senior Israeli military officers agreed that Karmi's killing transformed a situation of relative calm into one of murderous violence. That is what the muslims want the Israelis to think. They know that if the Israelis cut and run there will no longer be a successful, hard model of how to deal with muslim mass murders. The total destruction of Israel will soon follow and the Christian West will fold like the Eastern Roman Empire shortly thereafter.
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